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Evangelicals hope to convert Dalai Lama & Buddhists « Blaze Talks

April 27, 2007

Evangelicals hope to convert Dalai Lama & Buddhists « Blaze Talks

The link above is evidence of multiple aproaches to Christianity and how Christian leaders may interact with leaders from other religions such as the Dalai Lama. While some want to learn and teach and literally interact, others seem to just want to preach since they have all the answers.

From the article (Chicago Sun Times): “Most Buddhists would not have a problem with what is written in the gospel,” said Nakai, who does not follow the particular practices of the Dalai Lama’s sect. “It’s what evangelical Christians say — the idea that you have to be saved in a certain way or you’re doomed to eternal damnation, that’s what we have a problem with.”

I don’t mean to give certain types of Christians a hard time here, but my experience has been largely to do with Christians when it comes to religion, and I am trying to increase my knowledge and understanding in that area. I have done a decent amount of reading, but please educate me if you think I’m missing something.


Most my friends are Christians, and some of them are very strong Christians, and at times I am concerned by their behaviour, but at the same time, I don’t feel I have any right to say what they are doing is wrong. Their values can fit in with mine in every way, apart from the view that the path to God is to Christians alone. I can’t remotely accept it in my present spiritual evolution. I have asked Christians, “even though I’m not Christian, what if I felt God? What if I know of others who feel they know God?” I received two different answers: the first being that God is trying to speak to me and pull me in the direction of the “true” faith; and the second, that I’m being tricked by “the enemy.” So, I guess, from a Christian fundamentalist few, every other religion that is not Christianity can be looked at in this very same light – that either the true God or that the “enemy” is reaching out. Maybe they’re right – how do I know? The first answer is a little strange, since, in the given logic, I shouldn’t be able to speak with God since I haven’t accepted Jesus as the one true way to God; the second answer is a scary, and perhaps its scary so that people do the right thing in fear.

I find it truly hard to think that everyone who believes in another faith is going somewhere far worse than Christians. I can’t accept it. I find it especially hard to accept, when these people have lead lives of selfless service, and if they believe in a God or some sort of greater force. For a Christian (or another religion that shares similar views) with such beliefs about the afterlife, death becomes something quite difficult to deal with if they have non-Christian friends. But, as a close friend once said to me, “What are life and love and all this in the midst of eternity.”

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It seems strange to me that this quote would say that buddhists do “not have a problem with what is written in the Gospels”. Whilst the two religions superficially could be compared, the ideas behind the ‘love’ and ‘morals’ are very different.

Based on my very very limited reading on Buddhism, it seems that Buddha preached the idea of the ‘illusion of self’. From what i understand enlightenment comes from ridding yourself of all desire because that is ultimately the cause of all suffering. (very basically put). Jesus preached something completely different. His idea was that everyone was different, with different desires because we are all needed to reflect God’s image.(again, very basically put). These desires reflect God’s different desires towards us, for love, for justice, for safety, for advancement, for comfort, for challenge etc.

The idea of praying in terms of a non-christian, or even anyone who doesn’t subscribe to any particular religion is another part of this post that i think needs addressing. I think God will hear your prayers no matter what – being an omnipresent being means that he will. However, Prayer isn’t just a one way communication and it isn’t just a yes/no response either. God hears everyone’s cries to him. However, he knows his will is perfect (this is all from a christian perspective – tho there may be parallels with other faiths). This being the case, when a prayer is thrown out to him, he isn’t always going to say yes, even if its a seemingly good thing, because his will is ultimately better. Prayer is also about drawing close to God and hearing his will speak into your life. It becomes important to have a distinction between God and self at this point. People pray and can say they have experienced God, but without scripture or some clear expression of God’s will apart from self where is this line drawn? You might say you have experienced God, but is that an objective belief? Do you have a standard outside of yourself that you can refer to?

That’s all i’ll say for now – though there is much more to be said.

Thanks for the interesting discussions you’ve put up.

James

May 22, 2007

This ‘there is only one way’ mentality is what disturbs and angers me. Perhaps the apathy and ‘laziness’ that Christians state we possess hinders us from ‘experiencing God’… but I don’t know.

Shannon

May 23, 2007

I think religion is for lesser human beings. I like to think, that the common decency i was raised with prepares me better for lif, than blind faith ever could. People who need religion surely must be unsure of themselves, and always require guidance, or the false help that they are being guided in the right direction.

It really shits me, people predicting things, telling me what to do, what not to do, where i’ll go when i die, blah blah fucking blah.

As far as im concerned, while on this planet, everyone should: “Enjoy yourself, don’t be a dick and find things to like”

Extrapolate that in whatever manner you wish.

Marcus

May 23, 2007

Religion is for lesser human beings – geez marcus, i’d insinuate that you weren’t the brightest tool…but you’ve more than covered that ground.

Not sure where your judgment came from…and also, don’t you think that perhaps you’re a little narrow minded to discount religion so readily….

James

May 24, 2007

Thanks for the comment, but this argument will only go nowhere, because your frame of reference may be objective to you, however it isn’t really.
Yes, it’s wikipedia, but you might want to read this: Eightfold Path. This refers to some steps that can be taken to help cease desire and thus cease suffering. Would a Buddhist following the Eightfold Path really have a problem with any parts of the Gospels that do not discriminate (or get interpretted as discrimination)?
If you forget the values found in Buddhism and Christianity, they can be seen as very different religions or paths or whatever you’d like to call them. If we boil it down, it can be argued that Buddhist ideas exist on a foundation of impermanence, and that Christian ideas exist on a foundation of permanence. These ideas are clearly different, and as you say, unless compared superficially, the religions are hence, different. However, how can you be sure that the religions don’t have the same final destination? The only way you can argue that is by stating that you believe the bible to be absolute truth. And you will do that, and go for it.
As much as “Jesus preached a difference in us which reflects God’s different desires towards us,” why has God suddenly been limited to desires of love, justice, safety and so on. What happens to God when there is no desire? Surely God, who is so powerful, can cease his desire if he so intended, or is he bound by character traits. Is desire necessary? Is it necessary because we need desire to love God who needs to be loved? Perhaps removing desire would allow us to truly relate to God, or would we simply have no need to relate to God, because a state of understanding between Godand us, and thus the relationship, would simply exist?
Nonetheless, the end point of Buddhism seems to be an understanding of reality as it is, not as it seems. I can’t begin to fathom what that really means, however it is broad enough not to be discriminating, so unless it’s something that the “evangelical Christians say” I can’t see most Buddhists having a problem with that, and that was the point of my this post and the article i linked to.
The rest of the initial comment by James is something I refuse to respond to because it would be frustrating, difficult and altogether pointless. The rest of his comment refers to ideas from scripture that define a specific, limited God. Any standard I refer to is as logical as any standard you seem to refer to, and it is a combination of religions and my questioning. Why can’t we pray towards some part of ourselves that might subconsciously have the true understanding Buddhists speak of. Perhaps prayer is an inwards quest? Who knows, and if that is the case, the identification of the self is not truly necessary. Perhaps, like Hinduism suggests, God is in us, and until we come to that understanding, we pray outward only instead of inwards also.
And I hardly think “objective” is a word that should be used in this context.

Arnie

May 26, 2007

religion can lick my arse, and so can you James.

Marcus

May 26, 2007

I might not be reading this quote right:

“Surely God, who is so powerful, can cease his desire if he so intended, or is he bound by character traits.”

But this suggests that God has an intention to cease his desires – and this being the case, one would question why? We cease/alter our desires and behaviour because they are not appropriate…or there is some other better desire etc. However, This is not the case with God and therefore whilst he has the capacity, there is no need for him to cease his desires…

I don’t think that God is bound by limited desires such as love, safety etc…These were examples of the desires that God has put in us as reflections of himself. Every passion, emotion etc seen in humans is something that we have taken from God. It is just the usage that is to be questioned and if that is what God’s intention for it was.

James

May 30, 2007

I was saying that if God is limitless, then there is no need for desire. Perhaps God maintains desire for whatever reasons, though there is no reason to, or not to, apart from allowing it to be easier for humans to relate to something infinite. If we are reflections of God’s traits, then why not the ability to remove desire and the rest of what that entails?

If God is not bound by limited desires or traits, then shouldn’t there be more paths to God or the higher power.

My point was that I don’t feel that Buddhists will have a problem with the bible until it starts to suggest exclusivity – reflected in the evangelists asking people to convert.

Arnie

May 30, 2007

Ridding of desires – emptying the mind is one way.
Living with desires is another way. However, both can happen at the same time and lead to the same destination. Because when one lets go of the desires and empty the mind (desires taught by the family, friends, society and media and thus clear the slate) one might be able to attract the true image (energies) of god and his desires for us. May be that is the reason saints when they realize god, are selfless and devote their lives to serve the humanity! Just a thought!

Saki

June 1, 2007

There’s a talk at the GRS about church bloggers you might be interested in: Friday 8th June, 3:30, 4.2.02

jenny Weight

June 8, 2007

1 notes

  1. Dalai Lama urges Christians not to convert to Buddhism « Sathfilms reblogged this and added:

    […] Dalai Lama urges Christians not to convert to Buddhism Strange? Dalai Lama urges Christians not to convert to Buddhism - Not strange to me. And somewhat in contrast to something I looked at in a previous post of mine about the Dalai Lama. […]

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